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Leeds Business Insights Podcast: The Business of Hospitality with Spencer Rogers

Kelsey Cipolla — Tue, 29 Sep 2026 19:32:49 +0000

Leeds Business Insights Podcast: The Business of Hospitality with Spencer Rogers Kelsey Cipolla Tue, 09/29/2026 - 13:32

Spencer Rogers (MBA'25) discusses his journey through tech, hospitality and entrepreneurship.

On this episode of the Leeds Business Insights podcast, host Claire Stewart speaks with Spencer Rogers, hospitality entrepreneur, founder/CEO of Third Place Hospitality, and an alumnus of the Leeds School of Business, about entrepreneurship through acquisition (ETA) and his career path from product management at Apple to a PTSD-recovery app startup, then full-time hospitality.

Spencer explains how bartending alongside his tech career led him to Denver and into bar management, prompting him to pursue an MBA at Leeds to build his finance and marketing skills. Spencer found ETA and the search-fund model at a key time through a class and a mentor, leading him to form Third Place Hospitality in 2024, focused on “third places” that build community amid increased loneliness and blurred work/home life.

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Episode transcript

Claire Stewart: Today's LBIdea is that opportunities for entrepreneurship through acquisition are growing as business owners look to retire, and more education and resources become available for prospective buyers.

Our guest today is Spencer Rogers. A Leeds MBA alumnus, Spencer is the owner of celebrated Denver cocktail bar, Lady Jane, as well as the founder and CEO of Third Place Hospitality. Thanks so much for joining us today, Spencer.

Spencer Rogers: Thanks for having me.

Stewart: We are so excited to have you here today to talk about your career and everything you've done. So, tell us a little bit about your career trajectory. You've had a very unique career history. Can you walk us through it a little bit?

Rogers: Yeah, absolutely. It's a bit of a winding road, but I graduated from undergrad in 2014 from Duke University and immediately started working at Apple. I was effectively a product manager there. I worked on the iTunes TV Store, and did that for a few years, and wasn't really sure what I wanted to do.

I always knew I wanted to work at Apple. I worked very hard to get that first role out of undergrad, but I wasn't sure, kind of, overall. I was drawn to startups, and so I thought maybe I'd spend a few years there and then go launch a startup. Ended up staying there for almost a decade. I went from the iTunes TV Store to the Apple TV app to Apple TV+, the actual launch of that, which was a really incredible thing to be a part of, and then also led our live sports team, so the team that sends notifications when games are close and helps with all the integrations with Apple TV, with live sports.

So, did all of that and was ultimately a manager there and was very happy. I learned a ton, met a ton of really incredible people, but had an opportunity in spring of 2021 to jump to a startup. A friend of mine was starting a company called Trauma Brace. It focused on PTSD recovery via app, because she actually survived through a terrorist attack and went through all of that recovery process and realized that the supply-demand gap for trauma therapists is really not where it needs to be.

But prolonged exposure therapy is understood to such an extent right now that you can do a lot of what you would do in a therapist's office in a HIPAA-compliant, on-your-own-time app. And so, I left Apple in spring of 2021 to do that with her. Did it for a little bit over a year. And as is understandable from jumping from an enormous company to a two-person startup, wore a ton of hats and very quickly learned what I was good at and what I was really, really not good at yet.

And those things were things like finance and marketing, things that I just had never done before as product manager at Apple. And so, those were some of the elements where I just felt like I didn't have the knowledge to do what I wished I could do in that context. And during that process is also when I moved to Denver.

So, I was in San Francisco before then, slash Cupertino, at headquarters at Apple. And then when the pandemic hit, and I had left for the startup, it was one of those moments where it was like, "Okay, I can work from anywhere now." So, I bounced around for a little bit. I saw family around the country, and then I ended up settling in Denver with the thought that if I don't love it, then I'll move somewhere else, and I adored it.

So, Denver, I knew, was, kind of, going to be the place for me for the foreseeable future. So, I stepped away a little over a year after leaving Apple for the startup. I stepped away from the startup. It just wasn't working for me, and I didn't totally know what I was going to do next. I wasn't sure. And this is, kind of, the point where I rewind a little bit, and it gets a little bit funky. But when I was 22 years old, I got a job as a bartender. This was while I was working at Apple.

So, it was something I was always drawn towards, something I always loved. I wanted to be around people. I wanted to be working on my feet, have a little bit more social outlet. And so, I did that all through my 20s. I would work at Apple 9:00 to 5:00. Two, three times a week, I'd get in the car, drive to the bar, change clothes, take a five-minute nap, and work a shift. And I did that for years and years, and I loved it. I had a really great time. It felt like I could work one part of my brain at Apple, working on really cool projects, launching products, all that really amazing stuff, and then I could work another part of my brain at the bar, talking to people, interacting, connecting, which is something that I really love to do as a textbook extrovert.

Fast-forward eight years forward, I had been doing that all through the time. I did it part-time at Apple. I did it part-time while I was helping run Brace. And when I moved to Denver, I hadn't gotten a bartending gig yet in the six or so months since I had moved there while running Brace.

And so, everyone had always told me my entire life, you know, "Don't make your hobby or your passion your full-time job, because you're going to burn out on it and you're going to lose the love for it." And I was at a point in my life, in my career, where I could at least test that theory. So, the thought was, "Maybe I'll get a full-time bartending job. I'll see what it's like to be full-time in hospitality, full-time in food and beverage, and if I hate it, fine, I can go do something else. That's okay. I'm not married to this."

And so, I walked into a restaurant down the street from where I was living in Denver, it's called Work & Class, and I asked for a job. And it took a few months, and I met one of the owners, and she and I would get coffee occasionally, and then when they had an opening, they brought me on. And again, it was one of those, "Maybe I'll love it, maybe I won't, but we'll see." And much like moving to Denver, I adored it. Very quickly realized that I love working in hospitality. I want to do this full time. I want my career to be in this space.

And so, went from bartender to lead bartender to bar manager to beverage director for Dana Rodriguez in all of her restaurants. So, Work & Class opened up Carne a few years later, and was doing that for her as a beverage director.

Meanwhile, I was trying to figure out, what do I want to do long-term in this space? I know I want to be in Denver, I know I want to be in hospitality. How do I want to put those together? And I, kind of, thought back to my time helping run Brace and the things I was bad at, the marketing, the finance, the other just business skills that I didn't yet have.

And I decided in… this would've been winter of 2022 or spring of 20... I think it was spring of 2023, I decided to apply to business school. And I only applied to two. I applied to CU and DU. I knew I wanted to be in this area. I knew I wanted to be local. And I went and I toured both, and I met with folks, and I chatted with administration, and I ultimately decided that CU was going to be the right place for me.

And so, the idea was, let me go back to school, let me learn all of these skills that I wasn't good enough at the first time around when I was an entrepreneur, and let me give myself two years to figure out how I'm going to marry hospitality, Denver, startup experience, some tech experience. How do all these fit together? What do I do? And so, that's when I came back to CU.

Stewart: That's awesome. Quite the journey. And I love that you tried new things, experimented, tried to see where your passion lies. And I wanted to go back to what you said a couple times, saying that, like, you were recognizing your weaknesses and trying to figure out what you could do better when you were at the startup and when you were working in hospitality, and trying to figure out how education could, kind of, fill in those gaps.

So, how did your experience at Leeds and through the MBA program at Leeds, how did it help you, kind of, set the path working in hospitality now? What did it help do?

Rogers: That was the main goal of getting the MBA. I know a lot of people get MBAs for different reasons. Some people are career changers, some people are just trying to, kind of, break through a ceiling that they might have hit at work, and some people, like me, just realized that there were things I needed to learn. I wasn't done learning yet.

And so, I focused pretty heavily on the two that I mentioned, on marketing and on finance. I took a few entrepreneurship courses on the side, which is something that I obviously had a lot of background in. But wherever I could fill in gaps, I would. And I also took some venture capital classes because I had some experience talking to VCs during my time at the startup, and I realized that there's a chance that I'll end up across the table from one again at some point in my career, and it would be useful to understand all of the inputs that go into how they make their decisions and how they do their job, because that's the best way to make sure that you're presenting yourself in a way that makes sense and that works for their fund thesis.

So, focused on marketing, focused on finance, kept bartending, kept running bars on the side. Basically treated it like a morning MBA, like we have the evening MBA. So, I was doing it just from 9:00 to 5:00, and then I'd go work at the bar or run the bar, as you will. And one of the biggest moments, I would say, is, outside of marketing and finance knowledge, was actually taking a class called Projects in Entrepreneurial Companies.

So, I took that course in spring of 2024. That would've been spring of my first year of the full-time MBA. And the content of the course was great. It was basically a four-credit internship with a local startup. But what was more impactful for me was the professor, and that was Shannon Jones. He came to Colorado from Florida. He was running a family office's investments, and a lot of what he did was in this world called entrepreneurship through acquisition, where he would identify a young entrepreneur, often someone who had just graduated from business school, who wanted to purchase a small business.

And his family office would fund that entrepreneur in their search to find the business, which could go up to two years, and then also in their actually operating the business. So, you spend some amount of time trying to find the business, and then you buy it, and you operate it. And so, meeting him and hearing about his experience, kind of, planted that seed in my brain, and it was all off to the races from there.

Stewart: That's awesome. So, tell us about Third Place Hospitality's mission and what appealed to you about the idea of entrepreneurship through acquisition after you learned about it at Leeds, and then what that process looked like for you and what were the challenges?

Rogers: Yeah, so Shannon actually convinced me to take an internship with a search fund between my first and second years of the MBA program, and I worked with Olive Ridge Partners to do that. They were setting up a search, they acquired Colorado Home Services about six or seven years ago now, and had grown that and were thinking about maybe acquiring another. And so, I was helping them with that search, and at the same time, kind of, thinking over whether it would make sense for me to go this route.

Ultimately, I decided it would, and so in August of 2024, I set up Third Place Hospitality as an LLC, as a search fund. And the whole idea behind Third Place Hospitality is, I don't know if you're aware of the socioeconomic idea, but basically your first place is home, and your second place is work, and your third place is where you go to build community.

And that could be any type of place. It could be a gym, it could be a coffee shop. Obviously, it's been bars for a very, very long time. Churches are third places. All of those are third places. And for me, it's always been bars and restaurants, just that's, kind of, the way that I'm wired. And so, that was a really compelling idea to me.

And then added onto that, the fact that with the pandemic and since, a lot of people's first and second places are becoming the same place. And so, I think that now third places are more important than they've ever been. I don't know if you read the Surgeon General's report about an epidemic of loneliness, but that's a well-reported and a very real thing. Folks are feeling more isolated than ever, even as we're more connected than ever through technology.

And so, just for me, that really resonated, and being able to be a part of these third places, these places where people can go to meet friends, to build community, to be away from home, away from work, somewhere else that they feel safe and supported and welcome, that's just incredibly important to me. That was the impetus behind the name Third Place Hospitality. But I set that up in summer of 2024, and then as I went through my last year of business school, I was searching part-time while also running bars part-time.

So, I got under my first LOI in winter of 2024, actually while I was TA-ing the class on entrepreneurship through acquisition, the inaugural class. And that deal didn't work out. It fell apart maybe two weeks into the LOI. And then from there, there were a bunch of other false starts, broken deals, some closer than others, some more painful than others, but a lot of learning along the way. Because, you know, the process is you see something listed for sale, or you hear about something, or you chat with an owner, and then you give a letter of intent.

And the letter of intent kind of lays out, this is broad strokes, what the deal will look like. And it gives you some amount of time where it's exclusively yours, so they can't shop it to anyone else. And so, you get under the LOI, and then you have that much time to do your major due diligence, and that's when you start bringing in lawyers and accountants and start spending money on the deal.

So, once you're under LOI, it's yours if you decide you'd like it, but there's a lot of work yet to be done. So, I believe I was under LOI three times before I actually got Lady Jane. That was in... I had just come out of a broken deal in late summer of 2025, and I sat with the owner of Lady Jane, and I'd known him for years. He and I had gotten coffee a couple times a year for the past few years. I didn't know that he was looking to sell, but in the course of that conversation, it came out that it'd be something he would consider. And I think within a week, we had a signed LOI, and three months later, we closed.

Stewart: That's awesome. So, looking at entrepreneurship through acquisition, how does that work in the hospitality space?

Rogers: Yeah, it usually doesn't, honestly. It's not an industry that is a normal ETA target. So, traditionally, entrepreneurship through acquisition focuses on the trades. They'll do HVAC or electrical, landscaping, something like that. Some of the big things that search entrepreneurs look for are low customer concentration, high recurring revenue, and an industry that they might not already know about but that they can learn about on the job. That's the playbook, if you will.

And part of that playbook appealed to me, and part of it didn't, because I knew I wanted to be in hospitality. There aren't that many people doing it. It's not an industry that most people who are in ETA would consider, because the margins are really tight. It requires a decent amount of specialized knowledge. If you don't have a background in it, you're probably going to mess up. You see this all the time with folks who make a decent amount of money and open a bar or open a restaurant and don't really know how to operate it and often end up having to close it.

My thought and hope, and what I'm betting my career on, is that having that background in hospitality and knowing the space really well, combined with what I learned in the MBA program, a much stronger base in finance, I can find and get myself into deals for bars that perhaps other people in the ETA world wouldn't look at, and perhaps other people who are just purely in the hospitality world wouldn't necessarily have the knowledge to structure those deals.

Stewart: So, you, kind of, took the biggest challenge in the ETA world. You didn't start small, you went for the big dog. So, in that vein, what advice would you give to somebody that was, kind of, wanting to enter the ETA space, the entrepreneurship through acquisition space, not even just in hospitality, but just in general?

Rogers: Yeah, get involved in the community. We have a really incredible community of searchers and search investors and resources and mentors in Colorado. Shannon's a huge part of it. Adam Markley is also a huge part of it. He co-taught the inaugural ETA class, which was in the fall of 2024, and I actually TA'd that.

So, Shannon taught it, Adam co-taught it, along with Garth Fasano, and I TA'd that class. And all of them are incredible resources. Adam runs an ETA meetup the first Wednesday of every month. Actually, I'll be at the one this evening. So, that's just a great place for someone who's just starting to think about it to come ask questions.

There's always a cool speaker there, whether it's a lawyer or a banker who knows a lot about SBA, or Adam himself. They're always a great speaker, and it's just a great resource. But on top of the larger ETA community, I think one of the most important things, if this is something that someone wants to get into, is to build your personal community of folks who you're really close with, who you can meet with every week, every other week, and really go through together.

I would recommend it to be another searcher. I have my partner, Jesse Horan. He and I are basically search partners. We are looking for different businesses, and we are searching in parallel, but we have been searching together for over two years. And I think that's just been such a useful and such a beneficial element, because we're both going through it together. We can talk about the ups and the downs, and there are, especially during the search, massive ups and massive downs. You could be feeling great under LOI with a company one week, and then the next week you found a dealbreaker during due diligence, and you have to walk from the deal, and you've sunk so much time and probably some money into it at this point.

So, having both that larger community of folks who have done it, who are there to support, who know how to connect you with investors, stuff like that, and then also having your tighter circle of, ideally, people who are going through it step by step with you, I think is hugely helpful.

Stewart: Yeah. So, when you buy an established, like, highly regarded spot like Lady Jane, how do you bring your own vision to it, really, without alienating the staff and the customers that made it successful in the first place, but also bring your own knowledge, your own flair, and your own, you know, future success to the place?

Rogers: I think a lot of it is knowing when not to say anything, knowing when to just be quiet, take notes, learn, and get the entire picture. It required me to be very intentional, not trying to rebuild any wheels. I came into this business, it was successful, it was profitable. The GM has done a phenomenal job. He's built up a really great program, a really great staff, great regulars. We understand our identity. There are tons of things that are really, really well done, and so my job, especially at the outset, was not to screw those things up.

I spent the first six months of my time at Lady Jane effectively treating myself as a new hire. I went through all of the same training processes, all of the same requirements, the same menu tests as anyone else who would've just started at Lady Jane. And so, I spent six months learning every job. So, I learned how to work the floor, I learned how to work the bar, learned what the managers do, learned how to do door, which I think there are a lot of benefits to that.

Obviously, if I need to, I can fill in in any position that's needed now, which I do occasionally, and I really enjoy, because that's... It makes me happy to work on the floor. I love this industry. I love being on my feet and meeting people. But it also gave me time to understand why some things that, at first glance, might not have made sense and might have been something that my MBA brain wanted to change or, quote unquote, "fix," it gave me time to understand why those things are done this way, which gives you way more context and lets you be a better leader and a better business owner.

Stewart: So, now that you have been at Lady Jane, how long has it been since you...

Rogers: �Ǹ�Թ� nine months.

Stewart: �Ǹ�Թ� nine months, okay. So, what have been your biggest lessons in these first few months?

Rogers: Oh man, there are lots. I think one of the first ones, like, ones that comes to mind, is that unforeseen things are just always going to happen. You can't foresee everything. Things are going to change. Things are going to shake up. And I think a big part of being an entrepreneur really is how you handle those unexpected punches and how you're able to navigate them, go around them.

Sometimes the only way is through them. But it really is just always something different, something new, which is scary and exciting at the same time. I think also another thing that you really don't understand until you're in it with entrepreneurship through acquisition is once you're done with the search process and you close a deal, and you buy a business, you're now responsible for all of your employees and their well-being.

So, overnight, you become the person who makes sure the lights stay on, the paychecks get signed, you make payroll every time you need to, all of that. And that's obviously a... There's pressure with that, but it's really, really fulfilling knowing that you are able to support people in their careers. That's really cool. And then I'd say the last one, this joke got made all the time in business school, but it really is true. The only thing that you know for certain about your financial model is that it's wrong.

Stewart: That's good.

Rogers: Yeah, I mean, you can build it out as complicated as you'd like. You can do all of the sensitivity analysis. You can have all the different scenarios. But at the end of the day, none of those is going to be perfect. None of them's going to be exact. If you did your job right, it's somewhere within the bounds of, you know, upside and downside. But if you expect it to go exactly like the model says, you're in for a surprise.

Stewart: Yeah, absolutely. So, earlier you were talking about how, you know, hospitality is a completely different kind of beast, especially in regards to ETA. But what do you think are some common misconceptions about the business of hospitality that people have?

Rogers: Yeah, there are a couple of them that I get on a soapbox about. One of them is that people sometimes treat the hospitality industry as a stepping stone. You know, you hear Fortune 500 CEOs get interviewed, and they talk about how the job where they learned the most was when they were bartending or waiting tables to get themselves through school.

And that's cool because it does teach you a lot of really great skills. But my immediate thought whenever I hear something like that is, why didn't they stay? And what could someone have done to get that person to stay in the industry? There are tons of incredibly smart people in the hospitality industry, but there are also tons of people who pop in for two years, and then they pop out. And if we could keep them here and have them grow and fall in love with it the same way that I have, and build the industry from there, I think that would be really cool.

So, that's a misconception is that it's not a, quote unquote, "real career." And nobody at Lady Jane feels that way, I believe, and I don't feel that way. And it's very much something that is important to me, that people in this industry feel supported, feel like there's a real future here, and they can grow, and they can build something.

The other misconception I hear is that no one's drinking anymore. That's a big one. I don't think that's entirely true. People are drinking less, for certain, but I think they're drinking more intentionally. You know, instead of it being a thing that happens every night of the week, which isn't healthy, it's something that is once a week. And maybe they're bookending, where they start with an alcoholic beverage, and they have NAs in the middle, and then they end with an alcoholic beverage.

Or maybe they're zebra striping, where they're going back and forth between alcoholic and non-alcoholic. And I think a lot of the best bars in Denver and around the country and world are catering to those folks, because we want people to be healthy. We want people to be safe. Tons of places have really compelling non-alcoholic programs. I'm really proud of ours, and a lot of places do a really good job there.

It's not necessarily that, you know, bars are going to go away because people are drinking less. I think it just requires the industry to shift a little bit with changing perspectives towards health and making sure that you are still a third place for people, regardless of whether or not they're drinking that night.

Stewart: Yeah, those are great points. So, since you've been in hospitality, do you think that's the biggest shift you've seen, or COVID shifts? What has been the biggest change you've seen over time?

Rogers: I think that's a big one. I think another big one is specifically for the cocktail world, is that during COVID, everyone became a home bartender. COVID hit, and instead of going out to a bar and getting an Old Fashioned, people learned how to make Old Fashioneds. And I think that's awesome, because it raised the baseline of knowledge and understanding that your general guest would have. I think this happened for restaurants, too, because people were cooking at home way more.

But I think on the other side, it also made bars step their game up. So, just having a good Old Fashioned on the menu isn't necessarily good enough. Maybe even having something where you do a bit of technique, like smoking it, isn't good enough, because people got little smoke guns at home and started doing that.

And so, bars started stepping their game up in terms of technique. You know, fat washing became more prevalent. People were doing clarified punches. There's acid adjusting. The good, cutting-edge bars are doing more great, cutting-edge stuff, which I think was partially influenced by the fact that you couldn't just ride on the fact that you knew how to make a basic, classic cocktail.

Stewart: Yeah. I love seeing all the cool new things people are doing. I like it. Do you see entrepreneurship through acquisition growing, especially like in the Denver or Colorado area, and why?

Rogers: I think so. The silver tsunami — if you've heard of that — that's this whole idea that there is a massive, massive generation of folks who are retirement age, who own small businesses, who don't necessarily have succession plans. And that is not projected to slow down anytime soon. So, I think entrepreneurship through acquisition is absolutely going to grow.

I think it's morphing. The SBA changes their rules all the time. There's actually a big rule change coming up on October 1st that's going to affect the way people get funding for deals like this. And so, it's a little bit like Whac-A-Mole, where it's the Wild West for a little bit, and then defaults get a little bit too high, and so the SBA changes some rules to keep defaults in line as they should, which then makes deals harder to close, which then means that people who are trying to sell less-than-stellar businesses might not close their deals, which ultimately is a good thing.

But the, you know, the ebb and flow, the churn, affects people. I still think that overall, entrepreneurship through acquisition is absolutely growing, and especially in the Denver/�Ǹ�Թ� area. I think that it's on a really, really aggressive growth path right now, which is great. You know, CU �Ǹ�Թ� didn't have any entrepreneurship through acquisition curriculum when I started, which was in 2023.

And then by fall of my second year, myself and a few students, and Shannon and Adam, had convinced the administration to let us try out this first class, which we did, which has now become two separate classes, an A-term and a B-term course. And I think ultimately, there's going to be growth there in curriculum.

Last fall, we had our first Rocky Mountain ETA Conference, which was a huge success and drew a ton of folks from all over the country, actually. And we'll be doing that again this year. And that's also run by Erick Mueller, the entrepreneurship teams from a few other universities in the area, and then Shannon is a main player in that as well. So, I think a huge credit to a few big players in this area, but I don't see the growth slowing down anytime soon.

And I think that's ultimately very good. Obviously, from someone who is deep in the search, it means more competition, which makes things harder. But overall, I think more people knowing about, being interested in, being involved in this industry is only a positive.

Stewart: That's awesome. It's a very cool space to watch, so it'll be interesting to see what happens next. So, in the spirit of what's happening next, what is next for Third Place Hospitality?

Rogers: We're hoping to grow. We are loving Lady Jane, obviously. It's a fantastic place. I love being there. I love spending time with the staff. I love getting to know all of our guests and regulars. But ultimately, the goal was to make a little hospitality group through a combination of organic and inorganic growth.

So, especially with margins the way they are in our industry, it's safer and more fun to have a few concepts. Time will tell whether that means opening a new place from scratch, buying another neighborhood bar, partnering with a developer to build something out and own some real estate. But nothing's out of the question, and the goal is hopefully this time next year we can be talking about growth.

Stewart: Well, we look forward to seeing all the great things that you're going to do. So, thank you so much for your time today, Spencer. It has been great to learn more about you and the hospitality industry and entrepreneurship through acquisition.

Rogers: Yeah, thanks again for having me, Claire. This was a really fun time.

Stewart: Thank you again for listening to Leeds Business Insights. Make sure you're one of the first to hear every episode by subscribing to the show wherever you get your podcasts. The Leeds Business Insights Podcast is a production of the Leeds School of Business and produced by University FM. We'll see you next time.

Alumnus Spencer Rogers (MBA'25) discusses his journey through tech, hospitality and entrepreneurship.

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The Business of Generosity: Civic Leader-in-Residence Mowa Haile on Leadership, Ownership and Opportunity

Jane Majkiewicz — Tue, 29 Sep 2026 15:49:30 +0000

The Business of Generosity: Civic Leader-in-Residence Mowa Haile on Leadership, Ownership and Opportunity Jane Majkiewicz Tue, 09/29/2026 - 09:49

Jane Majkiewicz

In a wide-ranging Fireside Chat moderated by Julie Gibson, Sherman R. Miller Executive Director of the Klump Center for Real Estate, Leeds’ 2026 Civic Leader-in-Residence Mowa Haile spoke to a full audience in Koelbel on Sept. 25, sharing a key theme that ties together his career and business philosophy: “Be generous.”

As community leader and founder of Sky Blue Builders, Mowa Haile shared his family’s immigrant story from Eritrea to the United States. At age 9, he experienced the importance of community as people helped his family settle into their new life in Fort Collins. He also watched his parents focus on what they could build, he said. “They lost everything. They never lived as victims.”

Through running, Haile developed confidence, discipline, structure and perseverance, earning a scholarship to Colorado State University. “One season of cross-country changed what I believed was possible,” he told students.

Building a business around values

Haile thought he was headed to law school but instead discovered that he loved business. As a student, he said he was taught that a company’s major responsibility was “profit, profit, profit—and nothing else mattered.” His experiences taught him otherwise. After stints in high-tech roles, he launched Sky Blue Builders with the mission: Be Good, Do Great & Inspire.

Haile saw opportunity in the 2008 financial crisis. “Recession is the best time to start a business,” he explained, noting that the downturn meant fewer competitors in the industry.

The pandemic prompted new ways of thinking as Haile worked to sustain his employees, take calculated risks and revise project bids. He was also asked by the mayor to serve on the City of Denver’s Economic Relief and Recovery Council.

“We used the opportunity to streamline processes,” Haile explained. “We came up with many creative ideas, and improved so many things,” he said, sharing examples such as conducting inspections virtually, a practice that now remains. The experience solidified Haile’s understanding that a CEO’s top priority is to always be thinking ahead. “That’s the No. 1 job of a CEO. We have to see what’s coming in advance, looking at the next 3–5 years out.”

Building Sky Blue Builders required long workdays, navigating growing pains, and even refinancing his home, Haile shared. He also relied on community: “Mentors and the Colorado business community helped me with tough situations, building the team and judgment to survive growth.”

“Success means building something for others.”

—Mowa Haile, CEO of Sky Blue Builders

Sharing success and ownership

In 2023, Haile had the opportunity to either sell the business or transition to an Employee Stock Ownership Plan (ESOP). He chose the latter. The only disadvantage he sees to the model is the debt required to finance the transition, which the business must pay back within five years. Beyond that, he sees employee ownership as all upside.

“It was the right thing to do,” said Haile, explaining that the transition matched his values and those of his employees. Employees perform better and are deeply invested in the success of the business, he said. Put simply, he said, “They care—a lot.” He also pointed to tax advantages, noting that once debt is repaid, ESOPs are cash rich.

And the decision has paid off. The last two years were Sky Blue Builders’ best ever, Haile said, with revenue reaching $85 million in 2025. The ESOP model also changed decision-making. A six-member committee signs off on major decisions, and 30 of the company’s 60 employee owners applied for committee slots—a testament to their interest in being involved. It’s an “elevated culture,” he said. “People pitch in to help each other,” he added.

Building something for others

For Haile, “Success means building something for others.” He pointed to his work with Denver International Airport to launch the Center for Equity and Excellence in Aviation this year, the first of its kind in the country. For him, the center exemplifies broader efforts around inclusion and diversity by opening doors and creating opportunities for minority business owners and leaders in more fields.

That focus on creating opportunity also shapes how Haile thinks about the future of business. He sees a need for shifts in Colorado regulations, too many of which, he believes, hinder businesses from coming to and staying in the state. He hopes business leaders and legislators can increasingly work together to avoid unintended negative consequences for Colorado businesses and communities.

Looking ahead also requires creativity, something Haile prizes. While the AI-powered future remains uncertain, he advocates for optimism over pessimism. He also sees the market beginning to understand the need to course-correct by prioritizing the sharing of wealth over greed.

“A people-centered culture is a great business decision,” said Haile.

When Leadership Tests You

Mowa Haile shared practical tips for “choosing to overcome”:

Build communities that build people.
Mentor someone who cannot see their potential yet.
Create opportunity where it does not exist.
And when that moment comes—the moment when leadership truly tests you:
- Choose the harder path.
- Choose perseverance.
- Choose courage.
- Choose generosity.

Pictured right, Birdie Reznicek, associate director for culture and community at Leeds, left, Mowa Haile, and Julie Gibson, Sherman R. Miller Executive Director of the Michael A. Klump Center for Real Estate

Leeds’ 2026 Civic Leader-in-Residence Mowa Haile, community leader and founder of Sky Blue Builders, shared timeless words of wisdom with the Leeds community on Sept. 25.

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Five Questions with �Ǹ�Թ� Mayoral Candidate Jameson Goldstein (Fin’28)

Jane Majkiewicz — Fri, 25 Sep 2026 20:21:41 +0000

Five Questions with �Ǹ�Թ� Mayoral Candidate Jameson Goldstein (Fin’28) Jane Majkiewicz Fri, 09/25/2026 - 14:21

Jane Majkiewicz

Last May, Jameson Goldstein had a surprising idea: Why not run for mayor of �Ǹ�Թ�? Rather than spending the summer like most college students, he built a campaign website, developed his platform and researched the issues that matter to him. Here, he reflects on how his Leeds education has shaped his confidence and approach.

How has your Leeds experience contributed to your confidence to run for mayor?

The most important thing from Leeds that has helped me was my Communications Strategy class that I took freshman year. My teacher taught us about all the different types of speeches, and then throughout the class, we prepared and delivered three or four different speeches, and then also did a presentation at the end. That helped a lot with my public speaking ability. A lot of the events I go to for the mayor campaign are forums. I was at a forum the other day where I was speaking with the other candidates in front of an audience of 100 people. Having that experience from class was really helpful.

Whatever the election outcome, how do you envision using what you’ve learned at Leeds in your future?

For me, my favorite thing—a topic that spanned multiple classes—was learning about the soft skills of business and networking, which is something I think people often discount. While it’s important to have the knowledge of what you’re doing in your job, at the same time, you need to come across as an emotionally intelligent and likable person. On top of that, the professional network I’ve developed at Leeds has been fantastic. I still have people from my freshman cohort that I talk with, and I imagine a lot of those connections are going to pay off for the rest of my life.

Some campaign coverage has focused on your age, which you’ve described as an asset. What perspective do you think someone of your generation—and particularly a current CU student—brings to conversations about �Ǹ�Թ�’s future?

Soft Skills Matter

While it’s important to have the knowledge of what you’re doing in your job, at the same time, you need to come across as an emotionally intelligent and likable person.

—Jameson Goldstein (Fin’28)

I think number one—as a young member of any generation going back in history—it’s important that you see things from a new perspective. At a certain point as you get older, you might see things within a rigid framework compared to when you’re younger. Also, as a member of Gen Z, we’re the first generation that’s truly technologically native. I had my first iPod Touch when I was 6 years old, so I think understanding intimately how technology works, how we interact with it on a day-to-day basis, is really great. In running my campaign, it helps me understand what needs to be done in terms of policy in relation to lot of issues.

Have you recruited fellow Leeds or CU students to help with your campaign?

Most of the help I've needed has been with film and editing, so I have three film students who actively work with me. They help produce videos, edit and post them on social media.

What has surprised you most so far about running for mayor?

I really came into this having no idea what to expect. I think that’s an advantage. A lot of times when you go into something, you just assume it’s going to be a lot easier than it is. I think it’s a good thing that I didn't realize just how hard and time-consuming it would be, otherwise it might have dissuaded me from running. But I'm really happy that I’m doing it. One surprise was how relatively easy it is to initiate the process. The only requirements are that you’re of age, you have lived in �Ǹ�Թ� for at least a year, and you need 25 valid signatures from �Ǹ�Թ� voters. There were so few hoops to jump over that my friend and I kept thinking we were missing something.

Bonus question: Regardless of the outcome, what do you see yourself doing the day after the election?

I want to take the whole team of people who have helped me through this whole process to breakfast somewhere. I’m thinking either Lucile’s Creole Café or the Village Coffee Shop. Yeah—just to enjoy a nice breakfast and talk for a few hours.

Last summer, Leeds student Jameson Goldstein had a surprising idea: Why not run for mayor of �Ǹ�Թ�? The youngest candidate in the race, he doesn’t see his age as a disadvantage.

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'Lead by Listening'

Jane Majkiewicz — Wed, 23 Sep 2026 22:08:42 +0000

'Lead by Listening' Jane Majkiewicz Wed, 09/23/2026 - 16:08

Jane Majkiewicz

It turns out that a boardroom discussion and a jazz performance have more in common than you might think.

That was the premise behind “The Sound of Success: Listen Your Way to the Top,” a Sept. 23 interactive presentation hosted by the Deming Center for Entrepreneurship as part of its Startups & Sandwiches series. The interdisciplinary session brought together Annie Booth, assistant professor of jazz studies at CU �Ǹ�Թ�’s College of Music, and Visda Carson, associate teaching professor of strategy, entrepreneurship and operations at Leeds. They were joined by four musicians: Andy Carson (sax), Milo Lewon (piano), JJ Mazza (drums) and Mateo Perez (bass).

Deming Center Executive Director Erick Mueller started the presentation by noting that listening is consistently listed as a top skill sought by employers.

“Recruiters look for listening,” said Carson. The key thing they seek is candidates who demonstrate curiosity, she added.

Carson explained that there are three levels of active listening. At first, we hear but don’t necessarily listen because our minds may be distracted. The next level involves greater attention but still may be more self-focused than speaker-focused. At the highest level, attention shifts to full engagement.

Bridging Coltrane and conversation

By pairing musical examples with interactive exercises, the presentation showcased how active listening involves both ears and eyes, fostering a cohesive give-and-take that demonstrates presence and interest.

Active listeners bring curiosity and empathy to a conversation, tuning in to nonverbal cues and their surroundings to build connection and contextual understanding.

Four student musicians demonstrated the concept by playing three versions of John Coltrane’s composition “Mr. P.C.” The first time, each musician focused largely on their own part, creating a chaotic, discordant sound. The next version was improved, but it lacked synchronicity in tempo and had a disjointed feel.

Finally, the third version—representing the highest level of active listening—came together in a harmonious, cohesive whole, much the same way a successful conversation flows.

Booth explained how certain musical techniques are useful metaphors for conversations. The musicians demonstrated “comping,” a jazz term for “accompanying,” showing how they listened and looked to one another for cues while supporting the music as a whole. They also demonstrated “call and response”—a kind of musical conversation in which one musician played something that another responded to in either a matching or complementary way.

Jazzing things up

The beauty of jazz is that it is improvisational, but it still relies on structure and framework, much like a conversation, Booth explained.

Tips for Active Listening

Prepare for the conversation (Get in the right mindset and clear your mind.)
Be present and focused on the speaker.
Listen with your ears and your eyes.
Tune in to nonverbal cues: body language, tone and pace.
Engage all senses. Use intuition to pick up on subtle cues and sense the environment (such as dynamics in the room).
Empathize by acknowledging what the speaker is saying and feeling: Play back what you heard and clarify when needed.
Ask open-ended questions.

“You can go anywhere in the world—and I think this is about music more broadly—and not be able to speak the same language as someone else but frequently come to consensus about a shared repertoire and the shared language of jazz … and communicate in real-time.”

Ultimately, active listening is all about how we show up for one another, said Carson.

“How has studying music made you a better businessperson?” Mueller asked Mateo Perez (BusAna, Mus’28), a double music and business major and bass player.

“One of the biggest things I’ve used as a jazz person coming into the business school and as a transfer is reading the room and first listening to what other people have to say,” Perez said.

CU �Ǹ�Թ� music student and drummer JJ Mazza (Mus’28) emphasized the same point, summing it up this way: “Lead by listening.”

Hitting all the right notes, CU �Ǹ�Թ� professors Annie Booth and Visda Carson partnered with four CU �Ǹ�Թ� musicians to demonstrate active listening through jazz during a Startups & Sandwiches presentation.

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Leeds Remains in the Top 6% of Public and Private Business Schools in 2027 U.S. News & World Report Rankings

Jane Majkiewicz — Mon, 21 Sep 2026 17:26:10 +0000

Leeds Remains in the Top 6% of Public and Private Business Schools in 2027 U.S. News & World Report Rankings Jane Majkiewicz Mon, 09/21/2026 - 11:26

Jane Majkiewicz

Leeds continues to shine in the U.S. News & World Report 2027 Best Colleges Rankings, adding real estate to the school’s recognition.

Leading in Business Education

#33 Undergraduate Business School (among U.S. public and private institutions)
#21 Public Undergraduate Business School
#14 in Undergraduate Real Estate Specialty

U.S. News & World Report 2027 Best Colleges Rankings

U.S. News & World Report is out with its undergraduate 2027 Best Colleges rankings, showing Leeds holding steady in the No. 21 slot for public business schools, joining Michigan State University, University of Arizona and University of Iowa. For combined public and private institutions, Leeds ranks No. 33 out of 535 business schools in the 2027 rankings, placing it among the top 6% nationwide.

“Maintaining a top-tier ranking among both public and private undergraduate business programs is a significant accomplishment,” said Vijay Khatri, Tandean Rustandy Endowed Dean of Leeds. “As we continue to lead in business education, we remain committed to our Strategic Plan and to preparing students to succeed in a rapidly evolving world,” he added.

“That focus is producing exceptional results,” said Jennifer Bone, Stone Family Faculty Scholar and associate dean of Undergraduate Programs. “The undergraduate Class of 2025 achieved a 99% career outcomes rate (measured in accordance with NACE standards), while Leeds celebrated its largest graduating class ever in spring 2026, with more than 1,900 undergraduate and graduate students crossing the stage,” she added. Meanwhile, Leeds continues to attract world-class faculty and produce influential research that shapes scholarship, informs practice, and earns recognition in leading journals and media outlets.

Raising the bar in real estate

The 2027 undergraduate rankings include standalone specialty areas, highlighting Leeds as No. 14 in the real estate category. Leeds also ranked No. 16 for real estate in the latest MBA rankings.

The strength of Leeds’ real estate programs underscores the impact of the Michael A. Klump Center for Real Estate. By connecting students with professionals in real estate development, capital markets, valuation and law, the Klump Center bridges classroom learning and industry practice. Opportunities such as the 2026 Los Angeles Real Estate Trek, the Bascom Undergraduate Real Estate Competition and the Annual CU Real Estate Forum give students direct exposure to the industry while helping them build professional networks.

“Being ranked among the top undergraduate real estate programs in the nation is a testament to the robust, comprehensive ecosystem we’ve built here at CU �Ǹ�Թ�,” said Julie Gibson, Sherman R. Miller Executive Director of the Klump Center. “Our students don’t just study real estate; they benefit from an expansive network of expert faculty and CU alumni, as well as phenomenal resources and applied learning from the center,” she added.

“With close to 600 real estate majors actively engaged in our program, this ranking reinforces our position as a premier destination for real estate education and as a vital pipeline for future industry talent," said Christophe Spaenjers, professor and Michael A. Klump Endowed Chair of Real Estate and faculty director of the Klump Center.

Leeds continues to shine in the U.S. News & World Report 2027 Best Colleges Rankings of Undergraduate Business Programs, adding real estate to the school’s recognition.

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Career Paths: How Kohanna McCrary (Mktg’25) Is Fine-Tuning Her Musical Future

Jane Majkiewicz — Fri, 18 Sep 2026 19:16:02 +0000

Career Paths: How Kohanna McCrary (Mktg’25) Is Fine-Tuning Her Musical Future Jane Majkiewicz Fri, 09/18/2026 - 13:16

Jane Majkiewicz

Whether she’s managing marketing campaigns, filming weddings or booking her next tour, Kohanna McCrary approaches every opportunity as part of a larger creative vision.

Listen In Locally

Kohanna McCrary will be appearing at the following venues in Colorado this October.

• Oct. 13: Westcliffe (House Concert, email kohanna.bookings@gmail.com for ticketing information)
• Oct. 14: The Atrium, Fort Collins
• Oct. 16: Globe Hall, Denver
• Oct. 17: Steves Guitars, Carbondale
• Oct. 19: �Ǹ�Թ� (Fundraiser Event for Casting for Recovery)

You wouldn’t necessarily think about data cleansing when you think of a singer-songwriter and performing artist. But for Kohanna McCrary (Mktg’25), the knowledge she gained in Matthew Brady's Salesforce CRM course regularly comes in handy for research and maintaining the mailing lists that help drive her music career.

She also draws on business skills for marketing, branding and logistics as she builds her career as an independent artist. Her upcoming self-funded, self-booked “Where We Going” tour, a five-show run featuring songs from the second side of “The Colorado Project,” required outreach to more than 400 venues across Colorado.

Beyond the practical skills, McCrary credits her Leeds education with giving her a critical asset: confidence.

“Having the business education is having the confidence to be in rooms with people and know that I’m allowed to be there,” she said. “Especially as a female artist, the majority of rooms I sit in are with men. They already are judging you, so I think having a business education and feeling confident in myself helps a lot with those business decisions,” she said.

“You really have to advocate for yourself,” as every venue handles requirements differently in a business that has a lot more supply than demand.

While releasing music independently wasn't originally part of her plan, McCrary has come to value the flexibility it provides.

“I think every artist should release something independently before they go with a label,” she said. “There’s just so much to learn about it, and the process itself is so much fun.” Along the way, she’s reshaped her website “100 times,” refined her branding and learned to adapt as plans changed.

“’The Colorado Project’ is finally at a place where I feel like it's true to who I am. I think that if there were always other people telling me what they wanted, it would be a lot harder for me to get to the place where I’m at with my music.”

“Having the business education is having the confidence to be in rooms with people and know that I’m allowed to be there.”

Kohanna McCrary (Mktg’25)

Choosing Leeds

Music has been part of McCrary’s life since she was 14. Before transferring to Leeds as a sophomore, she studied songwriting in Nashville. While the experience reinforced her desire to pursue music, it also raised questions about her future.

“When you are going to study music, your college choices are very limited, especially if you’re not going for classical music,” she said. She wanted a broader foundation. “I wanted a backup plan, and I loved photos and videos and marketing,” she said.

That search led her to Leeds. Being in Colorado felt natural, as she visited regularly as a child and shares her dad’s love of the state. She also valued the rigorous coursework at Leeds and is especially grateful to Elmer Ramos, Matthew Brady and Ozlem Tuba Koc.

Setting the stage

While at Leeds, McCrary spent three years freelancing for SNÖBAHN, an indoor ski and snowboard training company with two locations in Colorado. After graduating in 2025, she joined the company full-time, managing its marketing efforts from her new home in Austin.

She credits the experience, along with mentorship from the company's founder, with helping her better understand the people skills involved in entrepreneurship and leadership.

"It’s so special to me because even though my boss isn't in the music industry, being able to talk with him, because he started this company from the ground up, feels like so much is parallel to what I'm doing," she said.

"I think that's why I take so much value from my business degree," she added. Before, “I was that person who was like, 'Oh, music is just this fun, creative thing, and then you get picked up by a label.'"

Now she better understands the realities of building a career independently and how to finance her ambitions. In addition to her full-time role, she produces wedding videos, another creative outlet that helps support her touring career.

While in college, McCrary also became involved with Roam �Ǹ�Թ�, leading marketing efforts for the campus fashion magazine and helping coordinate music for its first fashion show. One musician she booked there is now helping with her upcoming tour, a testimony to the power of networking.

Music with purpose

Part of a Leeds education is promoting business as a force for good. For McCrary, work with Casting for Recovery, which she became involved with as a student, has been transformative. A nonprofit that supports women with breast cancer, the organization partnered with her on “The Jane Project.” Her song "Jane" became her first film placement and was screened in more than 140 theaters nationwide.

One stop on her upcoming tour will serve as a fundraiser for the organization, and she plans to remain involved. Those experiences have reinforced McCrary's connection to Colorado. "Colorado’s full of good people, and I think that's why I like it so much," she said.

One show at a time

"My dream is definitely to be a touring artist with my bandmates," said McCrary. She’s creating that momentum. Recently, the band played Antone's in Austin, a milestone she once considered out of reach.

"I never dreamed that I would be able to play this venue," she said.

The accomplishment felt especially meaningful because of her dedication to her bandmates and team members. Her producer is a childhood friend. "And so that's the dream—being able to bring all these people up,” she said.

"The best way to find fulfillment in your career is to find joy and passion in whatever you're doing.” That philosophy extends to every aspect of her professional life, whether she's managing marketing campaigns, filming wedding videos or planning her next performance.

And when she steps on stage, the reason behind all that work is crystal clear.

"Throughout all of it, it’s so much, and I definitely don't sleep as much as I should, but I'm just so happy," she said. "It’s all I want to do. I just love it. It just makes me want to cry every time I’m on stage, because I'm like, 'Oh, yes!'"

Whether she’s managing marketing campaigns, filming weddings or booking her next tour, Kohanna McCrary approaches every opportunity as part of a larger creative vision.

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Michael Steinberg Set to Lead Burridge Center for Finance

Jane Majkiewicz — Tue, 15 Sep 2026 21:26:44 +0000

Michael Steinberg Set to Lead Burridge Center for Finance Jane Majkiewicz Tue, 09/15/2026 - 15:26

Following a comprehensive national search, the Leeds School of Business is pleased to announce the Burridge Center for Finance’s next executive director, Michael Steinberg, CFA.

With more than 30 years of experience across the investment industry, Michael Steinberg brings a wealth of knowledge to this leadership position. After graduating with degrees in mathematics and economics from the �Ǹ�Թ�, he began his career as an actuary in New York City and Washington, D.C., before earning his MBA from the UNC Kenan-Flagler Business School.

Over the course of his career, he has served in a wide range of roles, including portfolio manager, director of research, COO, CFO, CCO, chief risk officer, and investor relations. Most recently, he served as managing director of business development at Deer Park Road Management Company. He is also a CFA charterholder.

“Michael sits naturally at the intersection of practice and academia,” said Shaun Davies, faculty director of the Burridge Center for Finance and associate professor of finance. “He has spent his career at firms that have incorporated academic research into their investment strategies, has regularly written white papers and investor letters, and has contributed a chapter to a finance textbook. That combination of industry experience, intellectual curiosity and connection to CU makes him a particularly exciting fit for the Burridge Center.”

“Through Michael’s leadership, we hope the Burridge Center continues to bring together our exceptional students, world-renowned faculty, alumni, industry partners, and academic programs across the Leeds School of Business.”

Vijay Khatri, Tandean Rustandy Endowed Dean

Since 1997, the Burridge Center for Finance has worked to enhance and elevate finance at the Leeds School of Business, building superior innovation and talent through student, alumni, industry and partner networks.

“As we look to the center’s next chapter, we’re excited about the opportunity to continue strengthening its role as a bridge to the business community,” said Vijay Khatri, Tandean Rustandy Endowed Dean. “Through Michael’s leadership, we hope the Burridge Center continues to bring together our exceptional students, world-renowned faculty, alumni, industry partners, and academic programs across the Leeds School of Business.”

Following a comprehensive national search, the Leeds School of Business is pleased to announce the Burridge Center for Finance’s next executive director, Michael Steinberg, CFA.

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Leeds Students Connected with Industry Professionals at Business Leaders-in-Residence and Leeds Professionalism Summit

Jane Majkiewicz — Mon, 14 Sep 2026 17:19:40 +0000

Leeds Students Connected with Industry Professionals at Business Leaders-in-Residence and Leeds Professionalism Summit Jane Majkiewicz Mon, 09/14/2026 - 11:19

Jane Majkiewicz • Photos by Nathan Thompson

Friday, Sept. 11, was a busy day at the Limelight �Ǹ�Թ�, where more than 1,000 Leeds students participated in a full day of professional development, career exploration and networking through the Leeds Professionalism Summit and Business Leaders-in-Residence program.

As part of Leeds’ fall Career Week, the combined event brought together students and more than 200 industry professionals for a day of career-focused learning and meaningful connections. Held at the Limelight �Ǹ�Թ� Hotel, the program featured professional insights, career advice and networking opportunities tailored to students at every stage of their academic journey.

The day featured three tailored experiences, beginning with the Leeds Professionalism Summit for sophomores in the morning, followed by a networking lunch for graduate students, and concluding with afternoon roundtable discussions for first-year students.

Building on the success of the inaugural Business Leaders-in-Residence in 2025, this year’s event was designed to give students direct access to accomplished business leaders in an environment that encouraged candid conversations, thoughtful questions and authentic relationship building.

The morning program opened with keynote remarks from Kate (Minnihan) Strohl (Mgmt’18), former senior employer relations manager at Leeds and founder of Enneagram with Kate. A certified coach and longtime contributor to Leeds’ career programming, Strohl encouraged students to reflect on their values, challenge themselves to step outside of their comfort zones, and consider the long-term impacts of their career decisions.

She highlighted the many resources available through Leeds, including career treks, mentorship programs and networking opportunities, while emphasizing the importance of authenticity and investing in relationships. Before concluding, Strohl challenged everyone in attendance, students and professionals alike, to identify one meaningful goal for the day.

"Walk away with one thing you did today," she said.

That spirit of connection and support was evident throughout the event. Industry professionals generously shared their experiences, insights and advice with students eager to learn about potential career paths. Their engagement reflects a broader culture of mentorship at Leeds, where thousands of students and alumni participate in mentoring relationships each year.

With strong career outcomes and a commitment to experiential learning, Leeds continues to create opportunities that help students build confidence, expand their networks and prepare for careers after graduation. Tandean Rustandy Endowed Dean Vijay Khatri shared his heartfelt gratitude on LinkedIn, reflecting that the success of this event “takes a village, and we have an incredible one at Leeds.”

Kate Strohl (Mgmt’18) set the stage with the morning keynote’s supportive advice for the day, encouraging sophomores to overcome nerves, step outside their comfort zones and make the most of every opportunity.

The Limelight �Ǹ�Թ�’s Flatirons Ballroom buzzed with conversation as students and professionals exchanged ideas, experiences and plenty of smiles throughout the day.

Earnest conversation and real advice were built-in components of the day’s events. Tables were set up throughout the ballroom to promote roundtable discussions.

Chris Bentley (pictured in the white shirt) has mentored many Leeds students who have an interest in sustainability. As a self-described “ecopreneur,” Bentley shared insights from his career spanning 13 businesses.

While industry professionals shared advice and insights throughout the day, students also learned from one another, exchanging experiences, encouragement and ideas for navigating their career journeys.

Students learned practical strategies for navigating today’s competitive job market, including networking effectively, tailoring applications and making the most of Leeds’ career resources.

Darrell Zechman, senior director of career development and experiential learning at Leeds, walked students through helpful steps in the job search and interviewing process.

Ann Lerner, a Leeds undergraduate career coach who specializes in the finance and real estate fields, explained the recruitment application process and timeline, sharing valuable tips on conducting research, networking and employer expectations.

Beyond the large group sessions, students had opportunities for individual conversations with business leaders, creating space for thoughtful questions, honest guidance and meaningful professional connections.

As the day unfolded, the ballroom was a hub of conversation, curiosity and connection, bringing together hundreds of Leeds students and industry professionals for an unforgettable day of career exploration and community building.

More than 1,000 Leeds students and 200 industry leaders convened at the �Ǹ�Թ� Limelight for a day of career insights, networking and professional development.

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More Than a Summer Break

Jane Majkiewicz — Thu, 27 Aug 2026 21:03:57 +0000

More Than a Summer Break Jane Majkiewicz Thu, 08/27/2026 - 15:03

Ariana Kozlowski (Mktg’28) worked as a creative media intern at Hendrick Motorsports through the NASCAR Next Internship Program.

Jane Majkiewicz

Far from slowing down for summer, Leeds students accelerated their professional and personal growth through internships, global experiences and hands-on learning that made a lasting impact.

Ariana Kozlowski (Mktg’28) worked as a creative media intern at Hendrick Motorsports through the NASCAR Next Internship Program.

Forever lessons

Ariana Kozlowski (Mktg’27) will remember one moment from this summer for years: content she created for the Carolina Panthers was picked up by the NFL and ESPN. “It was awesome being able to see my work on such a big stage,” she said.

Among many memorable moments, her internship supporting digital content initiatives with NASCAR and Hendrick Motorsports solidified her goal of building a career in sports marketing and media. She discovered she thrives in a fast-paced environment.

“I also realized how much I enjoy the combination of creativity, collaboration, and the energy that comes with working in sports,” Kozlowski said.

Daniela (Dani) Saldana (Mktg, Fin’29) had an equally transformative experience, spending five weeks in Cape Town through the Entrepreneurship and Empowerment in South Africa (EESA) Program.

“EESA taught me so much that a traditional classroom experience simply cannot teach. I learned how to navigate living independently across the world and applied everything I had learned in business school to real businesses where our work had real consequences,” she said.

The program’s closing ceremony will remain etched in her memory.

“In addition to the two entrepreneurs my team of six worked closely with, my roommate Isabela (from Notre Dame), and I helped another entrepreneur, Phathiswa Gaga, formalize her early childhood development center,” Saldana said. “At the closing ceremony, watching Phathiswa jump up and down with excitement and tear up as she received her certificate filled me with a sense of fulfillment and accomplishment that I will never forget. Working with her taught me just how selfless and beautiful people can be.”

Growth opportunities

Colton Sontrop (Mktg’27) spent the summer working as a marketing intern with airport systems design firm BNP Associates.

Colton Sontrop (Mktg’27), who writes for the Deming Center during the academic year, spent the summer as a marketing intern with airport systems design firm BNP Associates.

“I learned to be timely, plan out checkpoints and deadlines, interact with higher-level professionals, and manage my workload on a day-to-day basis,” he said.

His most memorable moment came during his final presentation, when he shared an intern recruitment video he created that the company plans to use. “It was cool to see everyone’s reaction, knowing I made a lasting impact,” he said.

Kyle Tran (Mktg, StrEnt’28), a junior brand and content strategist for TikTok—an opportunity he got through the Badami Office of Experiential Learning—welcomed the chance to stretch outside his comfort zone.

“I had to support each decision with quantitative and qualitative data to justify business recommendations. It really tested my time management and remote adaptability. Learning to use large, uninterrupted blocks of deep-work time was an incredible life skill.”

Through her valuation services internship with Crowe LLP, Breeana Tran (Fin, Acct’27) learned the value of independence and determination while also becoming more comfortable seeking support when needed.

“Over time, I started to see asking questions less as a sign of weakness and more as knowing when to reach out and learn from the people around me,” she said.

From the classroom to the workplace

Kozlowski felt well prepared for her internship. “A lot of the marketing concepts I learned directly translated to my work at NASCAR. It was rewarding to see how the curriculum was represented in the real world, including such concepts as consumer behavior, branding, marketing strategy and analytics.”

Kyle Tran’s work focused on brand and content strategy for All Basics Uniforms (ABU). Drawing on concepts from Leeds coursework, he conducted competitor analysis, built customer personas, developed platform-specific content recommendations, established KPI benchmarks, and created a social media playbook.

“I was able to take core marketing frameworks and apply them to a real company. Rather than just throwing generic content at a social feed, I focused on analyzing how a brand could deliberately position itself to solve specific customer needs and pain points.”

Breeana Tran was glad she had completed upper-level finance courses before arriving at Crowe. “A lot of the concepts I learned at Leeds ended up being relevant. For example, I used the Discounted Cash Flow (DCF) method often during my internship, and I definitely wouldn't have felt as comfortable with it without taking Corporate Finance.”

She also credits Leeds with helping her build confidence. “Leeds prepared me really well when it came to networking and professional etiquette. I felt much more comfortable talking with my managers, asking questions, and knowing what questions would actually be helpful.”

Crafting real solutions

For Breeana Tran, assisting with business valuations and audit reviews revealed the complexity of valuing intangible assets such as customer relationships.

“It can be challenging because there isn’t always an obvious answer. I had to dig through data, research competitors, and look at past information to figure out what made the most sense. A lot of the work felt like being a detective, which made it really fun and rewarding.”

Saldana appreciated EESA’s emphasis on student ownership. Teams were responsible for developing and implementing several deliverables for each client, including financial systems, marketing strategies, customer retention plans, booking platforms, and sales materials.

Dani Saldana (Mktg, Fin’29), second from left, joined the summer 2026 cohort of the Entrepreneurship and Empowerment in South Africa Program.

Through Process Consulting, her team implemented seven major deliverables for two entrepreneurs, including bookkeeping systems, branding strategies, customer retention tools, and a sales workshop.

“Seeing the results after our engagement was incredibly rewarding,” she said. One entrepreneur secured partnerships with three brand ambassadors to promote her salon training academy, strengthened her social media presence, and gained a clearer understanding of her business costs and margins. Another used materials created by the team to secure new contracts.

“Sometimes showing someone how much you believe in them and their business can help relight that spark to keep fighting for its success.”

Takeaways for life

Kyle Tran left his role with a marketing portfolio of content and strategy work that will support future opportunities. “The most rewarding part was being recognized as a Top Performer, placing in the top 10% of my entire cohort based on my effort, initiative and final strategy presentation.”

For Breeana Tran, the experience broadened her view of global business. “I worked with companies in industries I didn’t even know existed, and it was interesting to see how they found their target market and provided something genuinely useful to the people they served.”

An added bonus was shaping her long-term priorities. “I now have a much better idea of the type of people I want to work with and the kind of work-life balance that's important to me.”

Saldana’s biggest takeaways?

Appreciate the little things in life and be a good person.
You are stronger and smarter than your brain tells you.
Learn how to rely on yourself.

Opening future doors

Georgia Horan (Psych’27), a Business Minor, leveraged her work as a student writer with Leeds’ marketing team to take on a summer internship with Millennium Management’s branding and communications team.

“The most rewarding part was being trusted with real ownership over projects and feeling like the work I was doing contributed to the team,” she said.

See what other Leeds students did this summer:

Observing company leaders showed her how strong relationships can shape effective leadership. “I learned that having strong relationships with the people you work with can make a significant difference in both the quality of the work and how much you enjoy doing it.”

Horan's internship led to a full-time job offer after graduation, giving her something many seniors hope for: clarity about what’s next. Rather than focusing on a job search, she can spend her senior year building skills she'll apply in her role with Millennium.

“It feels like a culmination of the work I’ve put in over the past three years,” she said. “I’m extremely grateful to have found an opportunity and a team that I’m genuinely excited to return to.”

Breeana Tran echoed that sentiment. She plans to complete her undergraduate degree now in three years, finishing in spring 2027. Crowe has already asked her back to work in a full-time role—a position she is grateful to accept.

Student Voices

In addition to gaining valuable career skills through summer internships, students also learned about their own strengths and interests.

Breeana Tran (Fin, Acct’27)

I now have a much better idea of the type of people I want to work with and the kind of work-life balance that's important to me.”

Kyle Tran (Mktg, StrEnt’28)

Learning to use large, uninterrupted blocks of deep-work time was an incredible life skill.”

Georgia Horan (Psych’27)

I learned that having strong relationships with the people you work with can make a significant difference in both the quality of the work and how much you enjoy doing it.”

Far from slowing down for summer, Leeds students accelerated their professional and personal growth through internships, global experiences and hands-on learning.

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Leeds Business Insights Podcast: Ratings, Risk and the Psychology of Choice with Ying Zeng

Kelsey Cipolla — Tue, 25 Aug 2026 21:29:41 +0000

Leeds Business Insights Podcast: Ratings, Risk and the Psychology of Choice with Ying Zeng Kelsey Cipolla Tue, 08/25/2026 - 15:29

Assistant Professor of Marketing Ying Zeng unpacks the hidden biases and mental shortcuts that shape consumer decision-making.

On this episode of the Leeds Business Insights podcast, host Claire Stewart speaks with Ying Zeng, assistant professor of marketing at the Leeds School of Business.

Ying explains why tasks feel most exhausting near completion—because people track percentage completed rather than total effort—and suggests batching chores to experience this "end drain" only once. She breaks down common online review biases, revealing how price and platform norms distort ratings, and offers practical strategies for making smarter purchases.

The conversation also explores AI as an emerging decision shortcut for complex purchases, the hidden appeal of risky products, and why marketers must simplify their messaging for "lazy" consumers. Finally, Ying outlines a framework for distinguishing short-lived fads from lasting market trends.

Listen now

Episode transcript

Claire Stewart: Today's LBI idea is to use marketing to help consumers simplify their decision-making process. Our guest today is Ying Zeng, an assistant professor of marketing and a Dean's Faculty Scholar at the Leeds School of Business. She is an expert in inconsistencies and biases in consumer decision-making, especially in digital marketing, strategic decisions, and consumption experience.

Thanks so much for joining us today, Ying.

Ying Zeng: Thank you, Claire, for inviting me to this podcast.

Stewart: Yeah, absolutely. So, how did your interest in consumer decision-making and behavior come about?

Zeng: So, there is an official answer and an unofficial answer to that question. The official answer is that consumer decision-making is extremely important for consumers, for business, and for policymakers. We know that there are many different types of business models. We have business-to-business, we have business-to-consumers, we have platforms connecting different parties together.

But ultimately, the demand is dependent on individual consumers, their decisions collectively. So, it is a very important ultimate channel for us to understand business, to understand demand and supply, to understand how this world of business is working. The unofficial answer is, so there is a joke in our field, meaning that we as consumer experts, we don't study artificial intelligence, we study human stupidity.

So, we are stupid consumers ourselves, and that's why we become interested in this topic. We want to understand why sometimes we overconsume, we buy things that we never use, and sometimes we underconsume. We miss the deals, we stuck in a poorly designed apartment for years without the motivation to upgrade it, even if we have the ability to do that.

In many different things, we make mistakes. So, we want to understand how these mistakes are made and how to mitigate them, how to prevent them.

Stewart: Awesome. So, one of your studies examined how we experience everyday chores and errands. What did you learn about how people feel during a task, especially as they get closer to completing it?

Zeng: This project actually started from a random conversation with my friend. You know, when we are toward the end of a semester, people start to celebrate to some extent. They say, "Great, you must be feeling relaxed more now. You're getting closer to the end." But I actually feel that I'm extremely exhausted when I'm toward the end of a semester, and I cannot say that.

People say, "How are you doing?" You can only say, "I'm good." You cannot say, "I'm exhausted." Right? So, why does that happen? I start to wonder. Is that because I did so many things, or is that because I'm toward the end of the semester? And then we realized that in this paper, there are a lot of different scenarios that are like this.

So, for a traveler, a commuter, when they are on the subway, the closer they are to the destination, the more tired they feel about this trip, even when they have completed the same absolute length of the trip. So, for two travelers, one has a 10-stop trip, the other has a 15-stop trip. At the eighth stop, the person with a shorter trip actually feels worse than the person who has a longer trip.

And then we find that this happens all the time. If you're doing regular workouts, for example, you probably notice that on the treadmill, if you have a 30-minute workout goal, the 25-minute mark is the worst, compared to if you have a 60-minute workout goal.

And we find that that's because people are actually not very sensitive to how much time you have spent on the treadmill, but how much percentage, what is the proportion of this task you have completed. And that's what's causing this exhaustion in this type of everyday chores and errands.

Stewart: Wow. So, do you have any tips of how to feel less drained when completing tasks and getting toward the end of a task?

Zeng: Yes, of course. So, for these types of mundane tasks, the easiest way is to simply combine them together. So, you know, there are controversies over whether we should combine all the chores together on one day, finish them, or if we should spread them out. Our research suggests that it is probably better to combine them together, so you only experience once this draining effect that's at the end of your last task.

Compared to if we spread them out, every time we complete these chores, we will feel this draining moment. So, that could be the easiest way possible.

Stewart: That's helpful to remember. That's good. So, you've also researched something we have all experience with, and that is online reviews. So, how did you approach studying that?

Zeng: That's what comes from my experience as a stupid consumer. I'm always trapped by those things that are very well-rated but with a very low price, and that's an extremely attractive combination to me. But when I buy them, I realize that, okay, its quality is fine, it's not that awful, and that's probably what earns its 4.9 stars.

But actually, it's not as good as what I would expect for something that's 4.9. So, that makes me start to wonder what happens with consumer reviews. Are they lying at all? Or are they somewhat truthful, but they are bad on some aspects? Or are they completely reflecting the quality? So, what's going on with consumer reviews?

And the more I study this, the more I find that online reviews are helpful, but you have to use them in a certain way. You have to recognize the biases behind them, and you have to think about what information they can actually provide, just like many things in our life.

Stewart: So, what did you find out about how people write and interpret ratings?

Zeng: Yeah, that's a great question. So, in two of my research projects, I find that people who write a review are heavily impacted by what's going on in their personal life, in what's going on in the specific reviewer's life. So, for example, if you're rating something on Amazon, and you probably also purchased that on Amazon, you will be heavily impacted by the norm you feel on Amazon.

Like you see every single product there is four-point-something. You never buy something that's three-point-something, and you rarely see something that's three-point-something. That means that you would probably also give a product a very high rating, even though, for example, 4.5 means extraordinary.

And if every product is extraordinary, there's no such thing as extraordinary. But if you're reading, for example, a book on Goodreads, you will notice that most books you see on Goodreads are two-point-something, three-point-something, or four-point-something. That means books have different qualities and people have different perceptions of them, and you will feel better when you give a book a three-star, for example, because you don't like it that much, but you don't hate it.

So, this type of norm heavily impacts how people express their attitudes and rate something. So, if you just take these ratings at their face value, you just think that four stars on Amazon is the same as four stars on Goodreads. That could heavily bias your decision. The other thing that I noticed that's super important for people when they rate something is the price. Why is that? It's because when I am the consumer, I pay something to get the product, and that pain of payment is very salient in my mind. I am the person who's spending that money. But for someone who's buying something, they won't realize that the rater actually thinks about the price when they rate this product.

They will only take that rating as if it's about the quality itself. There's nothing to do with the price. So, that means people are double-penalizing products that are high-priced. So, they think about, okay, the rating is only influenced by the quality, so it's not penalized with its high price.

And then I notice the high price, it means that I should discount it even more. And that is something people might make a mistake. But the mistake is mostly on the low-price product side. People would mistakenly believe that something that's low-price and high-rating is the best combination, which is the mistake that I mentioned earlier that I often make.

Now I realize this bias existing, I might favor products with a mediocre rating of, let say, 4.2, but it used to be a high-price product, and now it's at a discount. That could be the best combination compared to something that's extremely cheap but with extremely high ratings.

Stewart: Interesting. So, has this really changed the way that you shop and the way that you look at consumer reviews?

[Zeng: Yeah, of course. So, I'm now more expertised with consumer reviews. There are several tips I use. First, if there is a communication site or a review site, I use that site. I don't trust transaction sites that much now. So, if I choose a restaurant, I probably won't use, for example, OpenTable to choose that. I probably will use Google Maps.

If I choose a book, I probably won't just rely on the Amazon rating, and I probably will rely on the Goodreads rating. If I choose a movie, I probably won't use Fandango rating, just take it as it is. I probably would go to Rotten Tomatoes or IMDb for that. For products that do not have such type of open review sites, for example, if I'm going to buy a vacuum, I probably want to go to a third-party site like Consumer Reports to look at their reviews rather than relying on the ratings, simply on the ratings on Amazon.

And I also look at the review texts, which gives me more information. And I'm also aware of the price thing, which I mentioned earlier. So, it makes my decision become complicated but increases the quality of my decisions.

Stewart: Nice. So, you've become a super shopper, really, after all of this.

Zeng: A super and tired shopper, yes.

Stewart: Yeah, I believe it. How do you see AI impacting shopping decisions and consumer behavior?

Zeng: This is, I think, a perfect question to follow up from our earlier conversation. If you're very tired with shopping, you probably want to take shortcuts, and that's just human. One shortcut people take is using branding information, brands. People have brands that they trust, and they don't think about other things like price, like other consumer reviews, like the product specifications.

There are other shortcuts people use. For example, simply relying on ratings. That's another shortcut that starts when the reputation system establishes. Now we have another shortcut that we can also customize for our own needs, which is AI. So, if you are someone who cares, who has all these principles when you select a product, AI can be a tool to help you reduce these cognitive burdens.

And I can only speak about this at this current time period, because we do not know how AI will develop in the future and how that might become another shortcut that ultimately leads to bad decisions. For example, there's very recent research in our field showing that people start to use ChatGPT to help them make decisions for shopping, and they ask ChatGPT to help them compare the models, to compare different needs they have for a complicated product.

But right now, people are mostly relying on AI for complicated decisions, for products they are not familiar with. For example, I'm not super familiar with the different specifications for a computer. I probably will ask GPT to help me do that. But people are still heavily relying on search engines for simple products.

If I'm buying a dress, I probably want to just go to a search engine, just browse it, look for whatever fits what I like. Or if I'm buying some simple office supplies, search engines are still where I'm going. So, what I would like to summarize about AI's impact is, first, it's start to impact people's behavior, just like any other shortcuts people used to take.

And second, right now its impact is limited and more within the complicated shopping decisions domain. But in the future, they may become more customized. It might learn my preferences better, it might know me better, it might have more resources to help me simplify my decisions. That can become a very powerful tool, but it can also, meanwhile, become some problematic shortcuts, just like every other shortcut we used to take.

Stewart: Awesome. So, you provided some great information for consumers to be smarter, but for executives and marketers that are reading your research, what is the biggest misconception that businesses have about how consumers make decisions?

Zeng: One idea I really want to transmit from my own research is, do not overestimate how sophisticated your consumers are. Consumers are lazy. Consumers are not that intelligent. I am lazy. I am stupid. I am a consumer. So, for business and for marketers, the key part for us to design a successful product or to design something that consumers love is to help them simplify their decisions.

Make it obviously suitable for your target consumer. Do not hide the information. Do not assume they will simply infer it. Do not assume your consumer will read your 30-page, single-spaced product information. They won't. So, highlight the most important part for your consumer, help them simplify their decision, and make sure that your strongest comparative advantage is salient enough for consumers who only need to spend one second can understand.

That would be a great, very powerful and effective marketing tool for businesses to consider.

Stewart: Great. So, one of the other areas that you've researched is risk. So, what do you see as the connection between that and consumer behavior?

Zeng: Yeah. I would like to mention what makes me start to think about risk. So, if you think about this word, risk, people think about something negative. People think about losing money, for example. People think about worse health. People think about smoking. People think about taking risky activities. People think about riding a motorcycle without wearing a helmet, things like that. But when we think about real-world products that we describe as risky, by risky, we mean that it might bring people with benefit, whether it's hedonic or it's utilitarian, it's emotional, or it's functional, but it might add cost of something else, then things become different.

So, in my very early research on risk, I find that during COVID, for people who were severely impacted by COVID, they are more likely to take risks. They prefer risky things more. And it's weird because when you think about COVID, you probably think about fear. You think about staying home. You think about getting sick. Why would that be related to risk? Because risk is something that people tend to think about fear when thinking about risk. And then we find that that's because these people who were severely impacted, they're more bored, they're more restricted, and they really want some stimulating activities, something exciting.

So, risky things are actually something that tends to be exciting because of the uncertainty component associated with that and that potential reward. And then we can think about, in the marketplace, what are typical types of risky activities? A lot of entertainments are risky activity. Like skiing is actually a risky activity. And skydiving is another risky activity. Even for things like mystery boxes, Labubu, is also one type of, sort of, risky activity. You might just spend money buying something you hate. They're ugly. They're not something you really want. But people like that. It's the rewarding. It's that exciting component.

So, that's what we're trying to study, like, the exciting component of risky products, of products that are associated with risk, is actually very important for certain segments of our consumers. Consumers who are bored, consumers who are seeking stimulation, consumers who are looking for another lifestyle, who are stuck in mundane everyday activities and want to have some change.

Those consumers, risk is actually a good thing for them, and designing a product that has this component of risk, of uncertainty, of resolving an uncertainty, can be something important to our consumers.

Stewart: Awesome. So, before we let you go, what's currently piquing your interest when it comes to consumer behaviors or trends, personally or professionally?

Zeng: Yeah. So, I like to study two types of topics. One type of topic is something we call immortal. So, it's something that's deeply ingrained in human nature that lasts forever. It does not change with time, does not change with culture, does not change with context. And there are many things like this. So, one project I'm currently studying on is consumer attribution.

When there is a service failure, for example, who do you blame? Do you blame yourself? Do you blame the business? Do you blame someone else? Or do you think it just happens, you blame the luck? So, these types of topics are something what we call as immortal. There is a fundamental human principle underlying that, and that guides us in different types of consumer decisions and behaviors.

And the other type of research project that I find super interesting is what you describe as trends. So, I like to briefly discuss the three distinctions between fads, fashion, and classics. So, what I said "immortal" is something like classics. It is there forever. It's there since ancient Greeks, for example.

And a fad is something that has been super popular. Everybody talks about that, but it quickly decays. Nobody talks about it a year later, for example. Everyone can think of one example. There's actually a fun anecdote I have from a colleague who shares that they have this case competition every year for their business administration students.

What they find is every year there is a key trend. Everybody studies the same topic. But across different years, the topics change so much. So, in year one, everybody studies blockchain. In year two, everybody studied metaverse. But nobody studied blockchain for two or three or four years. So, that is what we call, as for example, fads that disappear very quickly.

That's not something that I like to study, but I like to study fashion, meaning that it's something popular for a couple of years or even a couple of decades. It's something used to become something cutting edge and then start to become the foundation of human society, and then it actually nurtures new things to come up.

So, reputation systems or consumer review systems used to be this type of fashion. When they first started, it was something new to everybody. And then they started to nurture this whole business of peer-to-peer business, this digital marketing business, all kinds of things. And now I think artificial intelligence is probably the next trend because it has all the features of what we call general-purpose technologies.

It has this feature of potentially nurturing new industries, potentially nurturing new ideas, and it has this feature of potentially having this feedback loop of reinforcing itself. So, I'm currently thinking about studying things that are either a fashion, now, I could be wrong, but I would judge this as fashion, or as a classic that has been lasting forever.

Stewart: Awesome. Well, I've loved speaking with you today, and I know that I will definitely be looking at consumer reviews differently and being a better shopper now, so I thank you so much for your time. This has been a fascinating conversation, and I really appreciate you joining us, so thank you so much, Ying.

Zeng: Thank you so much, Claire.

Stewart: Thank you again for listening to Leeds Business Insights. Make sure you're one of the first to hear every episode by subscribing to the show wherever you get your podcasts. The Leeds Business Insights Podcast is a production of the Leeds School of Business and produced by University FM. We'll see you next time.

Assistant Professor of Marketing Ying Zeng unpacks the hidden biases and mental shortcuts that shape consumer decision-making.

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